[ayat] Passage de la bible du jour

  • Initiateur de la discussion Initiateur de la discussion David39
  • Date de début Date de début
David39 a dit:
Reprenons donc en tentant de synthétiser:

Ombrage avec des ailes - (כנפים צלצל tsı̂l e tsal k e nāpāı̂ym) .

'Le mot rendu,' ombré 'צלצל tsı̂l e tsal, se produit uniquement à cet endroit et dans Job 41:7.
Le mot est évidemment dérivé de צלל tsālal, qui a trois significations:

(1) "Être louche, sombre, obscur;" et par conséquent, ses dérivés sont appliqués à tout ce qui "fait" une ombre.

(2) Cela signifie «picoter», «Frémir» «tintant»

(3) Cela signifie «couler» «une nuance», un dérivé du verbe צלצל ts e lâtsâl - le même que celui utilisé ici sauf les points - est appliqué aux criquets parce qu'ils apparaissent dans des essaims tels qu'ils obscurcissent les rayons du soleil et produisent une ombre étendue, ou ombre, sur une terre comme le fait un nuage; ou parce qu'ils font un bruissement avec leurs ailes.
__________________

En fait il ne sert à rien de déterminer quel sens est le bon car tout est valable et chacun de ces sens se rejoint et se complètent.

En effet s'il fait référence aux insectes, type grillon, celui là est caractérisé par les ombres et le cliquetis ou tintement que ces nuées font et interpelle de par cette facette obscure. Tel "l'oiseau de mauvaise augure".

Notons que l'un concerne l'aspect visuel, visible, donc la vue, et que l'autre est sonore, il s'identifie par l'ouïe. Ce n'est pas pour rien, tant sur l'aspect naturel, trivial que sur l'aspect mystique, obscur.


Poursuivons:

[...] étant un doublement du mot צל tsêl, une "nuance ou ombre"

Ce qui nous conduit au référencement des ailes, car elles sont souvent double et représentent les côtés. Prenons le cas d'un château ou l'on parle effectivement de l'aile droite ou de l'aile gauche, voir aile arrière. Mais arrêtons nous a la notion double puisque: צל tsêl (nuance,ombre) est doublé: צלצל tsı̂l e tsal.

Il s'agit donc d'un duel mais d'un duel double pas opposé en sens. C'est là donc que la particule "צלצל" lorsqu'elle est simplement traduite par ombre ne me satisfait pas puisque en effet l'insertion "ailes" se légitime visiblement par le doublage du terme ombre, nuance. Ce qui est, je trouve, ri-di-cu-le. Cet aspect ailé se doit d'être évident et ne pas venir en remplacement.

D'autant plus que si cette particule n'est présente que deux fois dans la bible comme spécifié et que de toutes évidences ces deux "rendu" n'ont rien en commun dans leurs lectures et leurs sens donné. Je ne peux, qui plus est, d'avantage en être moins satisfait.

C'est donc bien pour cela que je me sers principalement de la Bible de Louis Segond qui, malgré qu'elle semble décalée, reste souvent la plus fidèle en s'en quand on s'y penche dessus.

On pourrait donc se laisser aller à 40 traductions valables et tout autant complètement décalées, et c'est bien le cas!

Donc, et c'est justement pourquoi il est important de saisir l'essence du langage et son contexte que l'on analyse afin de retranscrire au mieux ces sens profonds.

On continue, façon idriss aberkane, certes, mais au diable les langues fourchus, n'est-ce pas? 😜

Qu'importe si tous les chemins mènent à Rome 🤷‍♂️
Cliquez pour agrandir...
synthétiser c'est tromper

l'ombre c'est son double, tu veux une image ? Et le nOMBRE c'est les quantités du presque du même genre

on analyse pas passé pour comprendre !
 
David39 a dit:
J'ai dis ce que j'avais à dire petite catin.
Cliquez pour agrandir...
tu prends tes désires pour des réalité fiston

C'est quoi un Katin ?


Femme dont les moeurs sont jugées légères au regard de la société ou dont la profession est de monnayer son corps pour subsister. Exemple : Plusieurs catins proposaient leurs services sexuels aux abords de cette route.29 mars 2021

et moi je fume la moquette :D
 
Verset du jour:

Ésaïe:

60:19 Ce ne sera plus le soleil qui te servira de lumière pendant le jour, Ni la lune qui t'éclairera de sa lueur; Mais l'Éternel sera ta lumière à toujours, Ton Dieu sera ta gloire.

60:20 Ton soleil ne se couchera plus, Et ta lune ne s'obscurcira plus; Car l'Éternel sera ta lumière à toujours, Et les jours de ton deuil seront passés.

💪
 
Reprise de l'étude de cas sur le verset Ésaïe 18.1 avec ces quelques apports en informations qui reprennent en partie ce qui a été dit précédemment et qui souligne la pluralité des sens qui s'imbriquent les uns aux autres et par conséquent mettant en évidence les lacunes de certains prétendu savants et bien pensant sur cette grande toile de liens qu'est internet:


Intro​

‘The eighteenth chapter of Isaiah,’ says bishop Horsley, ‘is one of the most obscure passages of the ancient prophets. It has been considered as such by the whole succession of interpreters from Jerome to Dr. Lowth.’

‘The object of it,’ says Dr. Lowth, ‘the end and design of it; the people to whom it is addressed; the history to which it belongs; the person who sends the messengers; and the nation to whom they are sent, are all obscure and doubtful. Much of the obscurity lies in the highly figurative cast of the language, and in the ambiguity of some of the principal words, arising from the great variety of the senses often comprehended under the primary meaning of a single root.’

Isaiah 18 - Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Isaiah 18, Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible, Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible provides Christians with deep insights into the Scriptures, emphasizing original texts and historical context.
www.studylight.org www.studylight.org


​

 

Verse 1​


Woe to the land - (הוי hôy). This word, as has been already remarked (the note at Isaiah 17:12, may be a mere interjection or salutation, and would be appropriately rendered by ‘Ho!’ Or it may be a word denouncing judgment, or wrath, as it is often used in this prophecy (the note at Isaiah 5:8).

Shadowing with wings - (כנפים צלצל tsı̂letsal kenāpāı̂ym). This is one of the most difficult expressions in the whole chapter; and one to which as yet, probably, no satisfactory meaning has been applied. The Septuagint renders it, Οὐαὶ γῆς πλοὶων πτέρυγες Ouai gēs ploiōn pteruges - ‘Ah! wings of the land of ships.’ The Chaldee, ‘Woe to the land in which they come in ships from a distant country, and whose sails are spread out as an eagle which flies upon its wings.’ Grotius renders it, ‘The land whose extreme parts are shaded by mountains.’ The word rendered, ‘shadowed’ צלצל tsı̂letsal, occurs only in this place and in Job 41.7, where it is translated ‘fish-spears’ - but as we know nothing of the “form” of those spears, that place throws no light on the meaning of the word here. The word is derived, evidently, from צלל tsālal, which has three significations:

(1) “To be shady, dark, obscure;” and hence, its derivatives are applied to anything that “makes” a shade or shadow - particularly “shady trees” Job 40:21-22; the shades of night Song of Salomon 2:17 & 4:6 ; or anything that produces obscurity, or darkness, as a tree, a rock, a wing, etc.

2) It means “to tingle,” spoken of the ears 1Sa 3:11; 2 Kings 21:13 “to quiver,” spoken of the lips Habakkuk 3:16; and hence, its derivatives are applied to anything that makes a sound by “tinkling” - an instrument of music; a cymbal made of two pieces of metal that are struck together 2Sa 6:5; 1 Chronicles 15:16; 1 Chronicles 16:42 ; 2 Chronicles 5:12 ; Nehemiah 12:27 ; Psalms 150:5 )

(3) It means “to sink” Exodis 15:10. From the sense of making “a shade,” a derivative of the verb צלצל tselâtsâl - the same as used here except the points - is applied to locusts because they appear in such swarms as to obscure the rays of the sun, and produce an extended shade, or shadow, over a land as a cloud does; or because they make a rustling with their wings.

Isaiah 18 - Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Isaiah 18, Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible, Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible provides Christians with deep insights into the Scriptures, emphasizing original texts and historical context.
www.studylight.org www.studylight.org
 
Dernière édition:
The word used here, therefore, may mean either “shaded, or rustling, or rattling,” in the manner of a cymbal or other tinkling instrument. It may be added, that the word may mean a “double shade,” being a doubling of the word צל tsêl, a “shade, or shdow,” and it has been supposed by some to apply to Ethiopia as lying betwen the tropics, having a “double shadow;” that is, so that the shadow of objects is cast one half of the year on the north side, and the other half on the south. The word ‘wings’ is applied in the Scriptures to the following things, namely:

(1) The wing of a fowl. This is the literal, and common signification.

(2) The skirts, borders, or lower parts of a garment, from the resemblance to wings Number 15:38; 1Sa 24:5 & 24:11. Zechariah 8.13. Also a bed covering Deuteronomy 33:1.

(3) The extremities or borders of a country, or of the world, Job 37:3, Isaiah 24:16, Ezekiel 17:3 & 7.

(4) The “wing” or extremity of an army, as we use the word “wing”

(5) The expanding rays of the morning, because the light “expands or spreads out” like wings

(6) The “wind” - resembling wings in rapid motion

(7) The battlement or pinnacle of the temple - or perhaps the porches extended on each side of the temple like wings

(8) “Protection” - as wings are a protection to young birds in their nest. t has been proposed by some to apply this description to “ships,” or the sails of vessels, as if a land was designated which was covered with “sails,” or the “wings” of vessels. So the Septuagint, and the Chaldee. But there is no instance in which the word “wings” is so applied in the Scriptures.

Isaiah 18 - Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Isaiah 18, Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible, Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible provides Christians with deep insights into the Scriptures, emphasizing original texts and historical context.
www.studylight.org www.studylight.org
 
The expression used here “may,” therefore, be applied to many things; and it is not easy to determine its signification. The “general” idea is, that of “something” that abounds in the land that is stretched out or expanded; that, as it were, “covers” it, and so abounds as to make a shade or shadow everywhere. And it may be applied:

(1) to a nation that abounds with birds or fowls, so that they might be said to shade the land;

(2) to a nation abounding with locusts, shading the land or making a rustling noise; or

(3) to a nation furnishing protection, or stretching out its wings, as it were, for the defense of a feeble people. So Vitringa interprets this place, and supposes that it refers to Egypt, as being the nation where the Hebrews sought protection. Or

(4) to a country that is shaded with trees, mountains, or hills. So Grotius supposes it means here, and thinks that it refers to Ethiopia, as being bounded by high hills or mountains.

(5) It “may” mean a people distinguished for navigation - abounding in “sails” of vessels - as if they were everywhere spread out like wings. So the Septuagint and the Chaldee understand this; and the interpretation has some plausibility, from the fact that light vessels are immediately mentioned.

(6) The editor of Calmet’s “Dictionary” supposes that it refers to the “winged Cnephim” which are sculptured over the temple gates in Upper-Egypt. They are emblematic representatives of the god “Cneph,” to which the temples are dedicated, and abound in Upper Egypt. The symbol of the “wings” is supposed to denote the “protection” which the god extended over the land.

(7) Gesenius (“Com. on Isaiah”) renders it, ‘land rustling with wings,’ and supposes that the word rendered ‘shadowing,’ denotes the “rustling” sound that is made by the clangor of weapons of war. Amidst this variety of interpretation, it is, perhaps, not possible to determine the meaning of the phrase. It has no parallel expression to illustrate it; and its meaning must be left to conjecture.

Almost anyone of the above significations will suit the connection; and it is not very material which is chosen. The one that, perhaps, best suits the connection, is that of the Septuagint and the Chaldee, which refers it to the multitude of ships that expand their sails, and appear to fill all the waters of the land with wings.

Isaiah 18 - Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Isaiah 18, Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible, Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible provides Christians with deep insights into the Scriptures, emphasizing original texts and historical context.
www.studylight.org www.studylight.org
 
Dernière édition:
Which is beyond - (מעבר mē‛ēber). This does not, of necessity, mean “beyond,” though that is its usual signification. It properly means “from the passing, the passages, the crossing over,” of a river; and may be rendered what is on the other side; or over against. It sometimes means on this side, as if used by one living on the other side Deuteronomy 4:49, Jos 13:27, 1 King 4:24; in which places it has not the sense of “beyond,” but means either on this side, or lying alongside. The sense here is, probably, that this country was situated “not far” from the rivers of Cush, “probably” beyond them, but still it is implied that they were not “far” beyond them, but were rather at their passings over, or crossing-places; that is, near them.

Isaiah 18 - Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Isaiah 18, Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible, Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible provides Christians with deep insights into the Scriptures, emphasizing original texts and historical context.
www.studylight.org www.studylight.org
 
The rivers of Ethiopia - Hebrew, ‘Rivers of Cush.’ (On the meaning of the word ‘Cush,’ see the note at Isaiah 11:11. It is sometimes applicable to Ethiopia or Nubia - that is, the portion of Egypt above the cataracts of the Nile. Compare Jeremiah 13:23. ‘Can the Ethiopian (the “Cushite”) change his skin?’ (see also Ezekiel 29:10).

This word does not determine with certainty the country to which reference is made - for the country of Cush “may” mean that east of the Euphrates, or southern Arabia, or southern Egypt. Egypt and Cush are, however, sometimes connected (2 King 19.9, Psalms 68.31, Isaiah 20.3, Isaiah 43.3, Nahum 3.9, compare Daniel 11.43).

The “probability” from the use of this word is, that some part of Upper Egypt is intended. Ethiopia in part lies beyond the most considerable of the streams that make up the river Nile.

Isaiah 18 - Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Isaiah 18, Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible, Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible provides Christians with deep insights into the Scriptures, emphasizing original texts and historical context.
www.studylight.org www.studylight.org
 
Retour
Haut